52 thoughts on “C-19 Chat Post – January 18 2022”

    1. Indeed you did. And masking in all indoor settings. A thinking person might wonder what the cdc is thinking when it says sports that involve small numbers of kids should be canceled and doesn’t mention in school that involves tens of thousands.

      I’d love to hear from a parent whose child is involved in after school sports. Unlike schools admins, I don’t know many coaches any more. I’ve heard from a few coaches. Those few have said kids are properly masked and distanced.

      Band and Indoor activities such as drama classes may be reasonable to postpone, but I don’t know enough

      https://www.valleycentral.com/news/cdc-recommends-schools-cancel-football-band-and-more-amid-covid-surge/

        1. Oops. That was for my other post in sports.

          But in this regard, I trust Israel. Maybe I’m wrong, but it has seemed to be forthcoming throughout.

        1. That is something your doctor should know. And there is fortunately plenty of time for more information to come out.

  1. I had heard that many inmates didn’t want to receive the vaccine when it first came out. Some thought they were being used as Guinea pigs. Well then …..this from the NYT. I could only see this much so no clue what the full article said

    “ Detainees in an Arkansas jail who had Covid were unknowingly treated by the detention center’s doctor with ivermectin, a drug that health officials have said should not be used to treat or prevent the virus, according to a new lawsuit.”

    1. Not surprising I guess based on the “red” state mentioned. Very devious indeed, putting prisoners at further risk, not to mention undermining their trust.

  2. Blurb From NYT

    “ Hong Kong will cull more than 2,000 hamsters and ban the import of small animals after a pet shop worker, a customer and at least 11 hamsters tested positive for the Delta coronavirus variant. Officials said it was not clear that the virus had been transmitted to humans from the animals.”

  3. On messaging the problem is that people are misunderstanding the importance of boosters. Boosters do little or nothing to mitigate against transmission, at least in the era of Omicron. But, they do a terrific job in preventing severe disease. CDC and others need to focus on this. There are way too many vulnerable Americans who are not boosting because they’re hearing boosters “don’t work against Omicron.” That’s simply not true.

    1. I agree. I hear people who have been very careful now say once fully vaccinated (two plus booster) that a person can go about life as they once did. I also read and have not checked that the cdc said close contacts do not have to quarantine if vaccinated. Yikes

      BUT according to the tweet I posted, Israel is saying a whole lot more.

      1. This is as straight forward as I have seen ….one reason I listen to Israel.

        New data mRNA vaccine 4th dose
        timesofisrael.com/israeli-trial-…
        —HCW, 154 Pfizer, 120 Moderna, + control group
        —Increase in antibodies > 3rd dose
        —Little effect on Omicron cases
        —No data yet for ? severe disease, memory B/T cells, higher or more durable protection
        —Uncertain benefit/need

  4. Exhibit A on boosters is the Netherlands. Their unbelievably efficient booster campaign the past 6 weeks is putting the U.S. to shame. Practically all vulnerable people have gotten boosters, and the booster rate for those >18 is 54%. Our booster rate is 24%. Pathetic. Netherlands’ 7-day average deaths per day is 13, which would translate to around 240 U.S. deaths. Our 7-day average is closing in on 2,000. I know that some of this has to do with stronger mitigation in the Netherlands – somewhat fewer cases – and better underlying health conditions. But, the biggest factors are a much higher vaccination rate and booster rate.

    1. And the willingness of most….not all of course..do do what is best for both themselves and the greater good.

  5. Denmark sequences pretty much every case. They were also one of the first European countries to be impacted by Omicron, well, visibly (as they’re doing the sequencing). I don’t like what I am seeing in Denmark, as Omicron Plus – BA.2 – is displacing the parent Omicron (BA.1). https://twitter.com/AndrewALover/status/1483499788267970561

    I have NOT yet seen evidence that BA.2 is more transmissible or more virulent, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It’s early days. Stay tuned. Across Europe, decreases in cases in a number of countries have stalled or even reversed course entirely. We may see this happen as well. I hope not. But, hope isn’t a policy.

  6. Thanks Joshua regarding boosters. I hope the CDC takes Israel’s findings with a HUGE grain of salt and still recommends as many boosters as necessary. Unless my PCP categorically says NO to the next booster, I will get in March as scheduled. Thanks Vicki as well.

  7. There is an article in the globe that I wish I knew how to copy for all to read. It makes me sick. The newest recommendation by pediatric experts is to mask to stay. Stop testing. Maybe test at home. Test to stay didn’t work (gee where did we hear that in this blog months ago). Stop paying attention to how many get covid. Teachers should not be upset about going to schools because gee doctors and restaurant staff and everyone else is in the same boat. Kids mental health is at stake purely because they cannot be in school which is the biggest, most insulting pile of garbage imaginable. If I’m not mistaken…kids are demanding not to be in school. Baker BTW is moving toward this mindset. Apparently, VT is already there but I’m not sure how fully invested VT is

    My Good God. We have moved past stupid to insane.

      1. THE BIG IDEA
        ‘This is a different phase.’ It may be time for a reset on kids, school, and COVID.

        By Kara Miller Globe Correspondent,
        Updated January 18, 2022, 1:01 p.m.

        Sometimes you can feel an inflection point.

        We’re seeing it in waste water, where, in the Boston area, evidence of COVID-19 has been plummeting for about a week.

        That already seems to be reflected in moderating case numbers. And, soon, we may start to witness a radical shift in how we think about COVID and school.

        Such a shift would impact a core part of society, one that has been a lightning rod for the last two years. And it may set the stage for a new chapter in the pandemic.

        David Rubin, a pediatrician at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia — one of the largest children’s hospitals in the country — insists: Not only do we need to keep schools open, but our entire approach to kids also has to change.

        “I think if you were to ask a lot of folks, they were sort of waiting for someone to dip their toe in and say: ‘We need a reset,’” he says.

        Rubin, who runs his hospital’s PolicyLab and serves as a professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine, has worked with colleagues on what might feel like fairly radical new guidelines.

        Among other things, they argue that we should stop regularly testing asymptomatic kids, and we should allow teachers and students with in-school exposure to stay in school if they’re asymptomatic (they call it “mask to stay”).

        If the exposure comes from home (where people spend more of their time and are more likely to spread the virus), “mask to stay” should be allowed only if the individual in question is vaccinated. That person could also be included in a smaller, more targeted test-to-stay program.

        Rubin knows these proposals are unusual, at least for this moment. And for some, they’ll feel scary.

        But, he says, we have hit that all-important inflection point. And if nothing changes about the labyrinth of policies we currently rely on, he’s worried about the road we’re headed down.

        “Kids were asked to shoulder a lot of the burden last year in a collective community response to COVID. Now the issues around prolonging social isolation or continuing to deny access to in-person education are so far greater than the risk of the virus itself. Not just to the children but to their families themselves, particularly now that people can get vaccinated.”

        Since 2022 began, some large districts — like Chicago, Milwaukee, and Atlanta — have closed or gone remote for at least a few days. Even in towns and cities that stayed open, many students and teachers have missed lots of school due to quarantines.

        Testing — which is often hard to get — has seemed key to keeping schools open.

        And, Rubin says, it has been. Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia runs a large testing program and advocated for test-to-stay policies early on. But in a fast-moving pandemic, such programs may become less and less important.

        “When everyone’s exposed,” Rubin told me, “what does it mean to test everyone every week? This is a different phase.”

        In the last few days, in fact, we’ve seen the entire state of Vermont make the shift away from routine, asymptomatic testing, instead allowing parents to do rapid testing at home when it makes sense.

        “Many of the strategies that previously were effective for us will cease to be useful (if they haven’t already),” wrote Vermont Secretary of Education Dan French, “and will instead become a drain on scarce resources without a clear public health benefit.”

        Dr. Benjamin Lee, a pediatrician at the Larner College of Medicine at the University of Vermont, warns that we need a new way of thinking about the pandemic.

        “I do think it makes sense to understand that … the days of relying on a centralized top-down response may no longer be the best approach going forward,” he told Vermont Public Radio.

        Governor Charlie Baker may be edging toward this view as well, announcing on Tuesday that Massachusetts schools can now adopt at-home rapid testing as an alternative to the more formal “test and stay.”

        Delaware County, just outside Philadelphia, has formally embraced CHOP’s recommendations, including allowing asymptomatic students and staff to stay in school if their exposure to COVID comes from a non-household member.

        Rubin says that CHOP’s test-to-stay program taught him that “even though we got a lot of schools to do it, and we trained a lot of people to do it, a lot of schools couldn’t do it. Particularly under-resourced schools could not pull it off in a way that maybe other schools that had more resources could.

        “So you started to create a system of the haves and the have-nots. And so you had some schools where kids were quarantined for 10, 14 days. And other schools that were getting their kids back in five days.” He said those disparities started to weigh on him.

        And it’s important to acknowledge, he says, what is lost when kids quarantine.

        There was a mental health crisis among kids before the pandemic, but now hospitals are increasingly seeing the effects of isolation and distancing.

        As the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has made clear, ER visits for suicide attempts among young people (particularly girls) skyrocketed during the pandemic. And this fall, the American Academy of Pediatrics declared a “national emergency” due to “soaring rates of mental health challenges” since the spring of 2020.

        As a parent of young children who has been following local, state, and school coronavirus guidelines with a fervor that I generally reserve for returns on election night, it’s hard to imagine us ever getting out of this thicket of regulations, testing, and quarantines.

        Can you really keep schools running when kids and teachers are exposed, but not routinely tested, as Rubin would have it?

        Yes, he says. Because there are risks on both sides of the ledger.

        “We’re actually seeing the patients. We’re seeing the spectrum of illness firsthand. And we’re also seeing the competing risks in our patients. And it’s time for someone with that level of authority that’s unconflicted, that’s not a health department, that’s not the CDC, to say: From our vantage point, the calculus now has changed.”

        He says that, judging from what he sees in the hospital, COVID is now acting more like “a seasonal virus, with regards to the spectrum of disease,” and it’s not going away anytime soon. Along with other respiratory viruses, it will simply continue to circulate.

        I asked Rubin about teachers who might be worried about walking into a school in which asymptomatic kids are “masking to stay.”

        “Welcome to all of our world over the last couple of weeks,” he says. “I hear what you’re saying, but we have folks — restaurant workers, health care workers — who face that every day. And it’s not just from their patients — it’s from their colleagues. And that’s the world of Omicron.

        “I would remind them that it’s the vaccination and the boosters, when they’re eligible, that are protective,” he says. “And in a typical flu season, no one would wear masks. You’re probably at a higher risk in that season of getting the flu. And flu can have particularly severe consequences. But for vaccinated individuals, boosted individuals, the risk is far lower.”

        He says that for some very high-risk teachers, accommodations could be made on an individual basis.

        Also, if a student or teacher has a health condition, they may want to continue to test frequently. “Let’s make that more of a voluntary or optional program, and we should provide the access to those individuals who do need to know.”

        The transition back to normal, he says, also will eventually mean that kids take off their masks. (In December, as the Omicron wave was rising, he and his colleagues at CHOP “implored the schools” to keep masks on, but cases will soon start to fall.)

        “I think most schools look at declining transmission and declining hospitalization,” Rubin says. “And so we’re helping schools try to identify when that moment is because everyone is doing it a little differently. But I think by February, we’re going to start to see a lot of schools moving to mask-optional postures.”

        Rubin acknowledges that he is advocating an unorthodox strategy, especially during the upheaval of Omicron, but he feels compelled to do it. “It’s counterintuitive a little bit because of the phase of the pandemic that we’re at, and that we hear about in the news every day. But it is truly a different moment.”

          1. Wow. THANK YOU. That’s the article. You are incredibly kind but may be right that it is the right idea but wrong moment

        1. Odd that kids have been in school all year and struggles with mental health is increasing. And no one mention of long covid in kids. These pediatricians are playing politics and need to lose their licenses IMO

  8. For students whose parents/guardians want them to attend school, I do think its good that schools are open.

    I’m now having my 5th class today and I haven’t seen anyone in my class that has alarmed me to send them to the nurse to be checked upon.

    Kids have tested positive and or been contacts and have been out of school, then they eventually come back.

    The option, if staff can be found, to remote is a fair request and I respect the request from parents/guardians who want that option. Very fair request.

    But, I am also saying, that having school in person is also fair too. It is better for students overall, in learning and socially. Us adults are always supported by our schools to take the time if we get sick and lord knows we are given more sick time than anyone in a private sector job ever gets or feels like they can use. Gee, when I was an accountant, I was made to feel guilty for taking a sick time, as a teacher, the feedback is, “go home”.

    1. I can write this, cause the kids are taking ANOTHER standardized test to track improvement at mid-year.

      FRUSTRATION !!! Do it at years end and let me teach my curriculum !!!!!!

      1. I’m shaking my head at that. I also detest standardized tests. I always turned to my kids teachers to learn where the strengths and weaknesses are. My kids do this as well. After all, who knows them on a day to day basis any better

        As an aside, I had a long discussion with a school admin over the weekend about MCAS. It cleared up a lot of what I’d suspected since my kids were in school.

    2. I absolutely agree. I have said every time I’ve commented here on schools that there should be a choice. Yes, in school is best for many. Remote is also best for many. I also know you have tremendous support when you are not feeling well and am grateful for that

      I cannot count the number of teachers I alone know who have retired early or found a new line of work. Some are tutoring kids who remain home. We have lost some amazing teachers.

      To deliberately expose kids because of the inability to recognize remote for some could well have avoided thousands of cases of covid and anyone’s guess of the long covid numbers is beyond irresponsible. There is more to it, but simple logic tells you if some

      We absolutely knew we would get to this point early last summer. A viable alternative could have been created in all of that time. Frankly, I wonder how many of the over 100,000 positives could have been avoided had we followed the path of other countries and extended Christmas break these past two weeks. In those two weeks….which was really just eight days….there were 99,514 reported cases. I know not all are reported and I also know home tests would add to that number but were not reported

      I am angry that we knew and did nothing. But I am past angry now that we know are are doing less than nothing by literally suggesting we don’t track numbers which is an inexcusable cover up and then we just leave asymptomatic positives in school with a mask.

      And please please know none of this is directed at teaching staff or admins or school committees or towns whose hands are tied. I admire you all far more than words can say.

      1. As I say this all. My daughters have found the home school program they are using is probably what they would choose even if remote were an option. Both gave up some income (one more than the other) and are struggling a bit financially but feel it was the right decision for them . Both also have full buy-in from their school systems as well

        But not all parents can take time or want to teach kids one on one which is where a remote option, especially for older kids, works. But not at the risk to teachers by burning them out.

  9. Medicare does NOT cover any tests purchase OTC or reimburse. I just spoke to a Medicare agent.

    We are talking about the group most at risk, folks.

    1. Makes ZERO sense. Our federal government – whether Republican- or Democrat-led – is incapable of making sense. I think their motto is the famous Talking Heads song Stop Making Sense.

  10. I am really puzzled by conflicting data.

    In several European countries on the continent we’re seeing a rebound in cases. A rather incredible one in countries such as Austria, France, and Denmark. Hospitalizations have also been climbing, though decoupled somewhat from cases. Question here is whether the Omicron Plus – seen in Denmark – is one of the factors. Reinfections are very high across the continent.

    In the UK, cases are falling dramatically, which is good news, except deaths are rising to very high levels. 438 reported today. That’s the highest number in >11 months. Deaths are a lagging indicator, to be sure. But, in recent days the numbers are quite high and inconsistent with the “Omicron is mild” mantra. In South Africa, we’re seeing a similar development. There, cases have been falling for more than a month, yet deaths are still increasing over time, rather steadily. Some of this is backlog, to be sure. But, could Omicron be taking longer to kill people and not be as mild as some have made it out to be. I wonder.

  11. My final answer is no one using Medicare is eligible for free OTC tests and no one will be reimbursed

    This country is a complete joke

    1. I read that if you had Medicare, you had to get a doctors okay (a prescription?) to get the COVID tests reimbursed.

      I have friends who are Medicare age who consider their medical insurer to be the company they buy the supplemental insurance from and not the federal government. So another layer of confusion…

      1. Thank you. The only reimbursement is if you have a medical person come to your home and administer the home test

        There are two tiers to supplemental providers. I have the top through BCBS. It is under the umbrella of Medicare so cannot reimburse

        Some Medicare HMOs will reimburse but the plan I have is exceptional (not one penny out of pocket or deductible) as opposed to the HMO Medicare’s.

        I appreciate your input a ton. I suspect this will be fixed

    1. Thank you for sharing this. I saw it earlier and it made my stomach curl. I’ve given up on any rational approach. I wonder where we will get these tests. I hope not from those the general public already has trouble finding.

  12. I left messages with both MA senators and reached out to an assistant for amazing state senator for our area. He was not away of Medicare. My guess is many are not. Please call Warren and Markey and your local reps. Or write.

      1. Of Medicare. I give up. Three hours plus on phone and writing to everyone ….I need to find some way to settle

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