It would be fair to say the vaccines are doing what they are supposed to do were we told initially that they have a 60 percent efficacy.
However, Below is what we were told by the CDC.
“Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.”
Based on the above, the vaccine is not doing what it was supposed to do. Yet, our mitigation strategies were based in good part on these high efficacy numbers.
As far as not dying…..thank God that is true, and the vaccines seem to be preventing most deaths to date.
Death is surely the most horrific outcome. However, these very many folks who were vaccinated because they were told they had very little chance of getting the virus at all may now face living with lasting conditions. These are only a few of the long-term conditions. Clearly, the vaccines are failing when it comes to preventing a virus (as was promised) that can impact a person for years or perhaps even the remainder of his life.
Good news to report on UK hospitalizations. Daily admissions are coming down. We’re trailing the UK by at least several weeks, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. One caveat – and it’s something I’ve mentioned before – we’re not as vaccinated as the UK and our death rate has been higher than the UK’s since early March (long before Delta). This could be a reflection of higher comorbidities in the population, healthcare system issues, later diagnosis, etc … I’ve stated before that the Delta wave will impact us more than it has Britain or any other Western nation. In the end, I believe that by December our death rate will be number one among all wealthy, industrialized nations. It is a shameful record. And we should NOT be pinning all the blame on the Trump Administration. There’s plenty of fault to go around.
Lethality of Delta is very hard to calculate. Confounding factor is the age group. One isn’t comparing like with like. One also can’t easily compare across countries, as each has a totally different percentage of vaccinated folks.
Agree with TK that generally speaking new variants are more transmissible but less lethal. However, the Spanish Flu provides a cautionary tale. The second wave was far more transmissible and far more lethal.
My guess is Delta is not only more transmissible, but also more lethal. Not a lot more. But the absolute (not just relative) numbers of people under 65 getting severely ill and dying with Delta are greater than with previous variants. We saw this first in India, but have also seen evidence of this in Britain and the US. It’s also attacking children more than any previous variant. I’ve been in contact with two pediatric ICU unit directors in Louisiana and Texas. They both told me this. Does this mean that children are highly susceptible to moderate or severe disease? NO. It does not. The vast majority of children who contract coronavirus will not get severely ill.
Thank you, Joshua. That is very good to know re children. Do we know if children can also develop long-lasting conditions?
Vaccine rates are going up. That is good news. What strikes me as rather interesting is that we have more positives now post vaccine than we had last summer without a vaccine.
Joshua, one comment I saw that gave me pause is that you cannot prevent the cold, so technically you cannot prevent covid. Is there any truth to that?
In some ways when we mask and distance we’re preventing but also putting off the inevitable: Colds and other viruses. There was a significant drop-off in rhinoviruses and influenza in 2020; probably due to social distancing. But once this relaxes, of course, the viruses can then circulate.
I can say this, I will be in full preventive mode during the next 9 days; before and during my trip. Do not want to contract the virus and test positive while in the UK. I could then be stuck there for a long time, in forced self-isolation (hotel). Dreamed about this last night. It’s preoccupying me, which is never a good thing. But heck, anxiety is not something that’s easily brushed off. I’ve overcome it and been highly functional for 56 years – sometimes severe forms of anxiety – but it ain’t easy.
Thank you. I’m guessing we just don’t have the data for children because the were not as impacted in earlier waves. That said, I do know there were more who were infected. Reporting was sketchy.
Tom mentioned something a bit ago that I’d been wonder about. He was concerned masking would weaken our natural immune system. He prompted me to do some digging. I found several articles that stated it does not have that effect. I posted one link that seemed to me the most in depth. I didn’t care for the way the author tended to be a bit snarky, but the data was there. I can see if I can find it if you like.
Joshua, do you think that the Boston Marathon “could” be in jeopardy given the Delta spread? Could runners being bunched up against one another along the course and even at the starting line cause a super spread even though it is outdoors?
Dutch CDC equivalent (RIVM) reports on breakdown of positive tests in the past week: 12% were fully vaccinated; 42% were partially vaccinated; 46% were unvaccinated.
Boston Marathon will definitely go ahead. First, the Delta wave will have gone well past peak by then – sort of like the foliage in Northern New England at that time. Second, it’s an outdoor event. No less safe than a ballgame at Fenway. In fact, I think a ballgame at Fenway is less safe, because fans huddle and sit or stand together for hours on end, which is not the case with the marathon, for the most part.
Thanks Joshua. You say that the Delta wave will be past peak, does that mean that by the end of the year, Delta will be “done” for all practical purposes and indoor masking can end once and for all and we can begin 2022 steps towards normalcy, regardless of vaccine status?
There is currently a proposal on Beacon Hill to mandate masks for all teachers and students K-12 for the fall.
Meanwhile, Gov. Baker will leave any school mask mandates to individual districts.
As long as schools are open then so be it. Masks or no masks, schools must be open and ready to teach in person.
Saw NYC teachers unions being hypocrites yesterday in not requiring vaccines for teachers. But they were happy to close last year bc of health risks.
A very interesting read re schools. I will repeat that I agree schools must be open for parents who would like their kids to be in school. They also must have a remote option. No one has the right to force a parent to place his or her child in a potentially dangerous situation.
That said….I discovered DESE does approve of a remote learning program. It is called Remote Virtual District. You had to sign up for it last April. Did anyone else notice that it was either never mentioned or was whispered?? Also, back to my plan, Esser funds could very likely cover a remote option cost. There is also a state approved remote plan where the parent is the support and not the teacher. It may have little or no cost. I’m still researching.
Kids from k-8 just don’t learn well in remote settings. High school is a different situation. We are going to have a generation of kids left behind if we don’t address this. And understand remote learning isn’t home schooling. Two very different scenarios.
That is not true. Many children in younger grades can and do learn very well in remote settings.
But that isn’t the issue. Children under 12 are now considered an at risk group.
It is really simple, Hadi. I’ve said every way I’m know how to be clear that if a parent wants to send his or her child to school, then that is absolutely fine.
No one is suggesting your choice be removed. I am not really clear in whether you are suggesting all parents should not also have a choice.
Unfortunately the data doesn’t support the fact that kids do well in remote settings. Maybe some do but majority don’t. What about all the kids that are were in remote that have no support system in place. Remote learning continues to show the gap from poor to well off, white to black and so on. Teachers can’t do remote and in person, if you want to find more teachers to teach remote and pay them to just be remote teacher then by all means have at it. We already struggle to find good, qualified teachers in public schools let alone finding more teachers. But I will add that if offering remote options takes away from in person then yes I am against offering it.
Remote cannot take away from in person when done correctly. And there are many examples of doing it correctly. I’m not sure you answered my question. Are you in favor of forcing parents to put their children in a situation they don’t feel is safe…for the child or perhaps for a sibling, parent or grandparent in the home who is high risk?
This risks are very real.
Keeping in mind that a charter school in Atlanta with very strict covid policies had to fully quarantine after two days due to 9 students and 5 staff (75% of whom were vaccinated) …..
The following is fact/reality.
Schools may well have to switch to remote due to quarantine. As was the case last year, many schools won’t be prepared because they are not planning for remote…those are the same schools that struggled with remote last year
It is proven that delta spreads much faster when people are grouped due to the much higher viral load in both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Schools are grouped.
It is proven that children are at a high risk when it comes to delta. With no choice other than in-school, parents are forced to expose their children to that high risk.
DESE and other systems have mentioned leaving exposed or asymptomatic kids in school and testing them daily. Covid can be spread a few days before symptoms and a positive test. This is a perfect example of how information is either ignored or twisted to fit the scenario rather than reality.
There is a simple fix. Reimburse parents for a virtual learning system or for home school.
Philip, I do think the Delta wave will be past peak by October 11th, and probably sooner. My guess is we’ll be peaking this month and will still have bad residual effects from a declining wave in September and into October. Do I think the pandemic is all over as we head into the holiday period? I don’t know. This depends on several factors: 1. Will we be upping the vaccinations nationwide? It appears we are a bit. And will we be providing boosters to those who need them? 2. Will there be another variant that’s worse than Delta? It’s possible, but no-one knows at this point.
The boosters will be especially important this fall, also in highly vaccinated states, as fading immunity coupled with people being indoors more in fall and winter could lead to yet another surge.
The message is we really need to reduce the caseload (through vaccinations and mitigation measures), or we risk creating the conditions for new, worse variants. I am not saying lock down or close. But, I am saying we ought to be more cautious than we are currently in indoor environments.
This from Israel should give us all pause. See tweet below. I just don’t know when we’ll be through with the pandemic, when I see this kind of data emerging from a very highly vaccinated country. It’s clear the Delta variant is breaching the defenses. To who degree remains to be seen, but this data suggests that all bets are off regarding how the pandemic will unfold. One implication is that boosters are a certainty and a must. https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1422644555711647744
Meant to say “to what degree.”
I tend to follow SC news since it is an area special to us. I was reading an article where Dr. Helmut Albrecht, director of the University of South Carolina’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, mentioned delta outbreaks in Israel and Great Britain. “We will see this here as well,” he predicted. “And that’s why one of the masking efforts now is to get the numbers back down before the schools open. Otherwise, this will be an unmitigated disaster.”
I was impressed that he is aware that what happens “there” eventually happens “here.” But I hadn’t thought of the benefits of mitigation and masking now as a possible deterrent for large numbers in several weeks.
Also, my son stopped by for an outdoor visit. He is part of the corrections system. I found it interesting that they have not had a case of covid in quite a while in his facility. A good portion of the “residents” are unvaccinated. About 80% of staff is vaccinated. Somewhere they are doing something right
Not surprised. Thank you Joshua.
Could we make things any easier for the coronavirus? I wish we would give endangered species this much of an opportunity to thrive.
Darn. I had seen that mayors had gone against the Governor but looks as if that didn’t work
I read a term today that I guess has been around a bit but I had just never noticed. Hyperindividualism. We have a serious case of it in this country.
NYC will impose vaccine mandates in restaurants, movie theaters, Broadway performances and other public indoor facilities beginning on September 13, which is the same day NYC schools open. Just show proof of at least “one” vaccination to enter these indoor spaces.
Dr. Fauci predicts other cities will do the same. It’s already being done in France where it’s a complete success so far. Massive demonstrations in the streets are taking place, but also vaccination rates are increasing.
What is proof of vaccination? Those cards?? Joke. Anyone can create them with card stock and a printer. I believe the EU is using a digital passport of some kind. That will never work here
Tom Frieden on Delta wave in US. See tweet/graph below. It is indeed much worse than the UK if you look at hospitalizations and ICU usage. I think we could be looking at >1,000 deaths per day soon. It’s staggering and unbelievable that this can be happening now. Some of it was/is preventable. And we must apportion some of the blame to the Biden Administration for poor messaging, CDC failures, saying “virus is on the run” on July 4th (Biden’s dumbest statement ever), and not enough outreach.
Our vaccination campaign was relatively successful early on, for sure, but MUCH less so in the later stages. Practically every Western nations has caught up and blown past us, AND they’ve done so by ensuring the most vulnerable are almost all protected (>95% coverage; ours is ~80%). There wasn’t enough systematic thought process and outreach behind the vaccination campaign, and, oddly, no mandates in healthcare facilities and nursing homes.
I never thought that I would say I am disappointed in Biden, but it is true. He dropped the ball on Delta for sure.
C-19 for 8-4 is ready.
Comments are closed.
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It would be fair to say the vaccines are doing what they are supposed to do were we told initially that they have a 60 percent efficacy.
However, Below is what we were told by the CDC.
“Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected.”
Based on the above, the vaccine is not doing what it was supposed to do. Yet, our mitigation strategies were based in good part on these high efficacy numbers.
As far as not dying…..thank God that is true, and the vaccines seem to be preventing most deaths to date.
Death is surely the most horrific outcome. However, these very many folks who were vaccinated because they were told they had very little chance of getting the virus at all may now face living with lasting conditions. These are only a few of the long-term conditions. Clearly, the vaccines are failing when it comes to preventing a virus (as was promised) that can impact a person for years or perhaps even the remainder of his life.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01693-6
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210407174321.htm
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-long-haulers-long-term-effects-of-covid19
Good news to report on UK hospitalizations. Daily admissions are coming down. We’re trailing the UK by at least several weeks, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. One caveat – and it’s something I’ve mentioned before – we’re not as vaccinated as the UK and our death rate has been higher than the UK’s since early March (long before Delta). This could be a reflection of higher comorbidities in the population, healthcare system issues, later diagnosis, etc … I’ve stated before that the Delta wave will impact us more than it has Britain or any other Western nation. In the end, I believe that by December our death rate will be number one among all wealthy, industrialized nations. It is a shameful record. And we should NOT be pinning all the blame on the Trump Administration. There’s plenty of fault to go around.
Lethality of Delta is very hard to calculate. Confounding factor is the age group. One isn’t comparing like with like. One also can’t easily compare across countries, as each has a totally different percentage of vaccinated folks.
Agree with TK that generally speaking new variants are more transmissible but less lethal. However, the Spanish Flu provides a cautionary tale. The second wave was far more transmissible and far more lethal.
My guess is Delta is not only more transmissible, but also more lethal. Not a lot more. But the absolute (not just relative) numbers of people under 65 getting severely ill and dying with Delta are greater than with previous variants. We saw this first in India, but have also seen evidence of this in Britain and the US. It’s also attacking children more than any previous variant. I’ve been in contact with two pediatric ICU unit directors in Louisiana and Texas. They both told me this. Does this mean that children are highly susceptible to moderate or severe disease? NO. It does not. The vast majority of children who contract coronavirus will not get severely ill.
Thank you, Joshua. That is very good to know re children. Do we know if children can also develop long-lasting conditions?
Vaccine rates are going up. That is good news. What strikes me as rather interesting is that we have more positives now post vaccine than we had last summer without a vaccine.
Joshua, one comment I saw that gave me pause is that you cannot prevent the cold, so technically you cannot prevent covid. Is there any truth to that?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/us-covid-vaccine-rates-delta-variant.html
Really don’t know.
In some ways when we mask and distance we’re preventing but also putting off the inevitable: Colds and other viruses. There was a significant drop-off in rhinoviruses and influenza in 2020; probably due to social distancing. But once this relaxes, of course, the viruses can then circulate.
I can say this, I will be in full preventive mode during the next 9 days; before and during my trip. Do not want to contract the virus and test positive while in the UK. I could then be stuck there for a long time, in forced self-isolation (hotel). Dreamed about this last night. It’s preoccupying me, which is never a good thing. But heck, anxiety is not something that’s easily brushed off. I’ve overcome it and been highly functional for 56 years – sometimes severe forms of anxiety – but it ain’t easy.
Thank you. I’m guessing we just don’t have the data for children because the were not as impacted in earlier waves. That said, I do know there were more who were infected. Reporting was sketchy.
Tom mentioned something a bit ago that I’d been wonder about. He was concerned masking would weaken our natural immune system. He prompted me to do some digging. I found several articles that stated it does not have that effect. I posted one link that seemed to me the most in depth. I didn’t care for the way the author tended to be a bit snarky, but the data was there. I can see if I can find it if you like.
Worth viewing how this wave is severely impacting healthcare systems in the South, but also Missouri and several other states. https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1422555884442562568
Joshua, do you think that the Boston Marathon “could” be in jeopardy given the Delta spread? Could runners being bunched up against one another along the course and even at the starting line cause a super spread even though it is outdoors?
Dutch CDC equivalent (RIVM) reports on breakdown of positive tests in the past week: 12% were fully vaccinated; 42% were partially vaccinated; 46% were unvaccinated.
Boston Marathon will definitely go ahead. First, the Delta wave will have gone well past peak by then – sort of like the foliage in Northern New England at that time. Second, it’s an outdoor event. No less safe than a ballgame at Fenway. In fact, I think a ballgame at Fenway is less safe, because fans huddle and sit or stand together for hours on end, which is not the case with the marathon, for the most part.
Thanks Joshua. You say that the Delta wave will be past peak, does that mean that by the end of the year, Delta will be “done” for all practical purposes and indoor masking can end once and for all and we can begin 2022 steps towards normalcy, regardless of vaccine status?
There is currently a proposal on Beacon Hill to mandate masks for all teachers and students K-12 for the fall.
Meanwhile, Gov. Baker will leave any school mask mandates to individual districts.
As long as schools are open then so be it. Masks or no masks, schools must be open and ready to teach in person.
Saw NYC teachers unions being hypocrites yesterday in not requiring vaccines for teachers. But they were happy to close last year bc of health risks.
A very interesting read re schools. I will repeat that I agree schools must be open for parents who would like their kids to be in school. They also must have a remote option. No one has the right to force a parent to place his or her child in a potentially dangerous situation.
That said….I discovered DESE does approve of a remote learning program. It is called Remote Virtual District. You had to sign up for it last April. Did anyone else notice that it was either never mentioned or was whispered?? Also, back to my plan, Esser funds could very likely cover a remote option cost. There is also a state approved remote plan where the parent is the support and not the teacher. It may have little or no cost. I’m still researching.
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/fighting-the-delta-variant-the-school-reopening-picture-darkens/2021/07
Kids from k-8 just don’t learn well in remote settings. High school is a different situation. We are going to have a generation of kids left behind if we don’t address this. And understand remote learning isn’t home schooling. Two very different scenarios.
That is not true. Many children in younger grades can and do learn very well in remote settings.
But that isn’t the issue. Children under 12 are now considered an at risk group.
It is really simple, Hadi. I’ve said every way I’m know how to be clear that if a parent wants to send his or her child to school, then that is absolutely fine.
No one is suggesting your choice be removed. I am not really clear in whether you are suggesting all parents should not also have a choice.
Unfortunately the data doesn’t support the fact that kids do well in remote settings. Maybe some do but majority don’t. What about all the kids that are were in remote that have no support system in place. Remote learning continues to show the gap from poor to well off, white to black and so on. Teachers can’t do remote and in person, if you want to find more teachers to teach remote and pay them to just be remote teacher then by all means have at it. We already struggle to find good, qualified teachers in public schools let alone finding more teachers. But I will add that if offering remote options takes away from in person then yes I am against offering it.
Remote cannot take away from in person when done correctly. And there are many examples of doing it correctly. I’m not sure you answered my question. Are you in favor of forcing parents to put their children in a situation they don’t feel is safe…for the child or perhaps for a sibling, parent or grandparent in the home who is high risk?
This risks are very real.
Keeping in mind that a charter school in Atlanta with very strict covid policies had to fully quarantine after two days due to 9 students and 5 staff (75% of whom were vaccinated) …..
The following is fact/reality.
Schools may well have to switch to remote due to quarantine. As was the case last year, many schools won’t be prepared because they are not planning for remote…those are the same schools that struggled with remote last year
It is proven that delta spreads much faster when people are grouped due to the much higher viral load in both vaccinated and unvaccinated. Schools are grouped.
It is proven that children are at a high risk when it comes to delta. With no choice other than in-school, parents are forced to expose their children to that high risk.
DESE and other systems have mentioned leaving exposed or asymptomatic kids in school and testing them daily. Covid can be spread a few days before symptoms and a positive test. This is a perfect example of how information is either ignored or twisted to fit the scenario rather than reality.
https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/atlanta-school-quarantines-more-than-100-students-in-first-week-of-classes/C36L5A6RUJCQFLSS3JLU4LDBXE/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01986-w
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/delta-variant-now-accounts-83-percent-new-covid-cases-n1274482
There is a simple fix. Reimburse parents for a virtual learning system or for home school.
Philip, I do think the Delta wave will be past peak by October 11th, and probably sooner. My guess is we’ll be peaking this month and will still have bad residual effects from a declining wave in September and into October. Do I think the pandemic is all over as we head into the holiday period? I don’t know. This depends on several factors: 1. Will we be upping the vaccinations nationwide? It appears we are a bit. And will we be providing boosters to those who need them? 2. Will there be another variant that’s worse than Delta? It’s possible, but no-one knows at this point.
The boosters will be especially important this fall, also in highly vaccinated states, as fading immunity coupled with people being indoors more in fall and winter could lead to yet another surge.
Dr. Topol has changed his tune a bit (again), but this time I find him more reality-based and less in the `everything’s fine’ mode. https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1422593573808005134
The message is we really need to reduce the caseload (through vaccinations and mitigation measures), or we risk creating the conditions for new, worse variants. I am not saying lock down or close. But, I am saying we ought to be more cautious than we are currently in indoor environments.
This from Israel should give us all pause. See tweet below. I just don’t know when we’ll be through with the pandemic, when I see this kind of data emerging from a very highly vaccinated country. It’s clear the Delta variant is breaching the defenses. To who degree remains to be seen, but this data suggests that all bets are off regarding how the pandemic will unfold. One implication is that boosters are a certainty and a must. https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1422644555711647744
Meant to say “to what degree.”
I tend to follow SC news since it is an area special to us. I was reading an article where Dr. Helmut Albrecht, director of the University of South Carolina’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, mentioned delta outbreaks in Israel and Great Britain. “We will see this here as well,” he predicted. “And that’s why one of the masking efforts now is to get the numbers back down before the schools open. Otherwise, this will be an unmitigated disaster.”
I was impressed that he is aware that what happens “there” eventually happens “here.” But I hadn’t thought of the benefits of mitigation and masking now as a possible deterrent for large numbers in several weeks.
Also, my son stopped by for an outdoor visit. He is part of the corrections system. I found it interesting that they have not had a case of covid in quite a while in his facility. A good portion of the “residents” are unvaccinated. About 80% of staff is vaccinated. Somewhere they are doing something right
Not surprised. Thank you Joshua.
Could we make things any easier for the coronavirus? I wish we would give endangered species this much of an opportunity to thrive.
The latest weekly report from Florida shows that the number of new cases has increased 10 times (not 10%, 1000%) in the last six weeks:
http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/covid19-data/covid19_data_latest.pdf
Meanwhile:
https://apnews.com/article/health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-f7a383de8065b5824344a6a79aa1eece
Note the last paragraph!
Darn. I had seen that mayors had gone against the Governor but looks as if that didn’t work
I read a term today that I guess has been around a bit but I had just never noticed. Hyperindividualism. We have a serious case of it in this country.
NYC will impose vaccine mandates in restaurants, movie theaters, Broadway performances and other public indoor facilities beginning on September 13, which is the same day NYC schools open. Just show proof of at least “one” vaccination to enter these indoor spaces.
Dr. Fauci predicts other cities will do the same. It’s already being done in France where it’s a complete success so far. Massive demonstrations in the streets are taking place, but also vaccination rates are increasing.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/most-of-massachusetts-now-in-cdcs-should-mask-zone-over-covid-transmission/2453275/
What is proof of vaccination? Those cards?? Joke. Anyone can create them with card stock and a printer. I believe the EU is using a digital passport of some kind. That will never work here
Tom Frieden on Delta wave in US. See tweet/graph below. It is indeed much worse than the UK if you look at hospitalizations and ICU usage. I think we could be looking at >1,000 deaths per day soon. It’s staggering and unbelievable that this can be happening now. Some of it was/is preventable. And we must apportion some of the blame to the Biden Administration for poor messaging, CDC failures, saying “virus is on the run” on July 4th (Biden’s dumbest statement ever), and not enough outreach.
https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1422586002200219657
Our vaccination campaign was relatively successful early on, for sure, but MUCH less so in the later stages. Practically every Western nations has caught up and blown past us, AND they’ve done so by ensuring the most vulnerable are almost all protected (>95% coverage; ours is ~80%). There wasn’t enough systematic thought process and outreach behind the vaccination campaign, and, oddly, no mandates in healthcare facilities and nursing homes.
I never thought that I would say I am disappointed in Biden, but it is true. He dropped the ball on Delta for sure.
C-19 for 8-4 is ready.