58 thoughts on “C-19 Chat Post – November 12 2021”
Thanks TK!
Cases continue to rise, especially in the northern tier of states (i.e.,MA) as more folks are heading indoors now.
It’s very frustrating that the fully vaccinated are getting the virus as well. This was NOT part of the plan when the new vaccines came out early in the year! WHAT happened?!?!?
When the polio vaccine first came out I don’t recall over the years hearing about polio cases suddenly on the rise.
Delta happened.
Getting my Moderna booster a little later this morning. How the bleep long will that last? a month or 2???????
This is not a good situation at all.
Still waiting for my 10:45 booster. they booked 6 persons for 1030. gimmiea a break! What a compmete farce!!! Pathetic!!!
You think I am pissed? Sure am. I am steaming!!!!!!!
Typical overbooking.
Received dose at 11:20 for a 10:45 appt.
So far, so good.
Good luck !!
Thanks Tom. Still aok.
There is no excuse.
Unsettling that vaccine efficacy against contracting infections is so poor. About half of new infections in Massachusetts are breakthroughs, and for the >65 group and vulnerable that’s a massive problem. I do blame Bourla (Pfizer chairman) and others for overpromising on the vaccines. Even early on it was clear that efficacy wasn’t that good against contracting the virus. Yet, Bourla et al. persisted in saying the vaccines were a “very effective”tool to prevent spread. They’re really not a “very effective” mitigation tool to curb spread. They ARE very effective – thus far – at preventing severe illness: Latest meta analysis has a 80-94% range on the vaccines’ effectiveness at preventing severe disease.
Piss-poor planning yields piss-poor results
No excuse. But people STILL believe being vaccinated makes the virus impenetrable, and I still hear “the vaccine is doing what was promised.” That has been nonsense for months.
If the vaccine truly did “what it promised”, we would be long done with mandatory masking by now. Of course, the unanticipated vaccine hesitancy didn’t help matters.
I agree although I think vaccine hesitancy was always a given.
Vicki, I don’t believe that vaccine hesitancy was expected to be so high. People last year this time were BEGGING for a vaccine, but many “chickened out” once they were cleared for use.
And I guess “herd immunity” is long since off the table? I don’t hear that term anymore even from the most optimistic medical professionals.
Even following schools as closely as I do, I missed something. Knowing test and stay is in place, when I look at weekly school covid numbers and see two students, I think only two or perhaps only a few have to remain home. How wrong that assumption is.
Anyone with two symptoms of anything (colds included) cannot be part of the test & stay program. As such those folks need to stay home…..students, teachers, staff. Many schools are struggling with absences, especially teachers who are in short supply. There is a serious shortage of substitutes. School nurses are starting to indicate they will step down or have already stepped down. As one school official put it in a SC meeting I watched…..right now nurses are the heart of the school.
Pool testing stresses resources since folks to administer the hundreds daily were never supplied by DESE. Kids are being sent home with a packet and a chrome book. Staff has said even an hour or so of zoom a day or even a week to assist homebound students would help. Zoom is absolutely forbidden by DESE.
This is more in the lower grades since upper grades have many vaccinated. I am sure there are schools that are not struggling with this….yet. But far too many are.
The reason most often cited for removal of the remote option was disruption of leaning for children.
The students at the Curley elementary school K-8 in JP are most certainly on Zoom! The only school in Boston and the state if I’m not mistaken.
Until November 22.
And that’s Thanksgiving week. Is it worth it to attend school that week for 2 and a half days? Any possible outbreak that’s ignited by pupils being in-person would then spread to others Thanksgiving weekend. Perhaps better to wait until Monday the 29th?
That makes too much sense. 😉
🙄
If they are using zoom and it is not a private school, they cannot use zoom
Here you go philip. DESE criticizes Curley. This is as big a joke as it gets
Not true. Schools can also use BinaxNow for symptomatic testing through CIC—same as test and stay. Not all choose too, but all are able.
Thanks, Dave. I have listened to enough to know you are right about not using it. I’ll need to find out why. You have given me something else to research.
But that still leaves schools in the same position either way. Kids and, as important, teachers, are not in class. My point is accurate. There is a great deal of disruption for all….and some could be eliminated by remote to assist those in quarantine or for groups without a teacher. In this last week school positives went from 2,218 the previous five day week to 3,021 this four day week. That is a huge increase. Worse….schools with over 10 positives increased from 56 a couple of weeks ago to 87. One was Natick. IMO is it increasingly difficult to justify the choice that was made to ban remote… the desire for continuity in teaching for all is not being met
Netherlands update:
Another massive case increase today, as well as a continuing significant rise in hospitalizations and ICU usage.
A compromise lockdown will be in place for 3 weeks, not 2, but not nearly as strict as during the winter of 2021 or spring 2020. Mask mandate everywhere in public indoor spaces, to be enforced, as well as distancing and capacity limit mandate (also enforced). Number of visitors to households limited to 2 per visit (not sure how this can be enforced, but knowing the Dutch there will be what they call “sociale controle” or neighbors telling one another to follow the rules). In the Netherlands, to be neighborly and obedient is what they call “social” behavior. Disobeying rules or going against norms, like going through a stop sign, is “anti-social.”
Non-essential stores may be open until 5 or 6pm, depending on the type of store. People are “strongly advised not to travel and work at home if at all possible” for 3 weeks. Schools, however, will remain open.
A stricter lockdown – permanent – will go into effect for the unvaccinated per the 1st of December. Very similar to Austria. Basically, unvaccinated folks will not be allowed into non-essential stores until they get vaccinated. Proofs of negative tests will no longer be sufficient for entry into certain public spaces like non-essential stores, libraries, museums, and restaurants.
How will that “unvaccinated” lockdown inside their homes be enforced? There is NO way a person is going to remain in his/her home or apartment for days on end.
They can leave their home, and they can go to supermarkets, grocery stores, schools (if they’re students), and pharmacies. But, they may not go to non-essential stores, restaurants, libraries, and museums. The Dutch already check you at the door in many of these places, to see if you are either vaccinated or have a negative test. The rule change would mean that having a negative test no longer gains you entrance to a public indoor space.
What is deemed a “non-essential” store? If a liquor store is one of them, that most certainly NOT go well, if the Dutch are anything like most Americans here. A VERY good move by Baker to keep those stores open last year. Just for the record, I’m a “teatotaler” myself.
In Chile being restricted to home was absolutely enforced and respected. This was before vaccines. Other countries can do what is needed.
Philip, what’s being proposed and in some cases being done across Europe wouldn’t fly here. I recognize that. I’m just reporting on it.
I will say that the European record on public health interventions and outcomes is excellent, compared to ours.
Our lens for looking at these things is often through the constitution, therefore focused on the individual. This relegates most if not all public health interventions to a secondary if not lower status. As living documents, almost all European constitutions have been modernized post war, to reflect their social welfare systems – incorporating a right to healthcare, for example – and numerous public health provisions (right to clean water, for instance). With these rights come obligations. It’s a two-way street. In the U.S. most of our enshrined rights are on a one-way street. We owe government and our fellow citizens practically nothing. In fact, the greatest good we get from the constitution is a right to non-intervention. That’s a fundamental difference between the U.S. and Europe. I am not saying that either system is better or worse. They’re both democratic, but have different emphases and principles that underlie societal functioning.
Great and true comment. We forget that our founders were concerned with the health of all. Washington had his troops isolate and then required vaccination for smallpox. This was 1777.
We have an amazing tendency to Interpret a constitution that is intended to protect all as if it is intended for us individually
Yes, it’s often by interpretation and extrapolation that we must judge how our founders would have responded to, say, the Covid-19 pandemic. I do think that their emphasis was on the individual, with less of a role for society and government than, say, modern-day Europe. But the key word here is emphasis. As you hinted at, it’s not an either/or thing.
For Europeans their influencer from the Enlightenment period has often been Rousseau and his social contract. In the U.S., we don’t entirely ignore this, but place less of an emphasis on it.
It’s very unfortunate that black or white (binary) thinking is so prevalent these days. When House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, for example, says the Democrats’ policies are socialist, I’m wondering if he understands the word. It’s best to understand some of the Democrats’ policies in the light of the social contract, rather than socialism. And, of course, there are the Gohmerts and Greenes of the world who claim that certain policies are communist. One really wonders whether they comprehend the meaning of the word communist. Oh well, enough political philosophy for now.
Philip. See above de Curley school.
This is as absolutely absurd. DESE doesn’t want to allow short-term remote for kids who CANNOT be in school while quarantined because it will not “…. meet the academic and social emotional needs of our students…”.
My God. How does repeated disruption, lack of teachers and their guidance, parents with seriously ill children, children seeing friends diagnosed with a virus they know is serious and having to leave school in any form meet academic and social needs.
Philip, I think the liquor stores in the Netherlands can remain open, as they are deemed essential. “Wine farmers” as the stores are referred to, are really nice in the Netherlands, just like the bakeries, vegetable stores (called “vegetable farmers”), cheese shops, and fishmongers. You can get everything at a supermarket in the Netherlands, yet the traditional stores continue to thrive.
Dutch government has added a few more things to the list:
– Every household with a confirmed case must quarantine until all have proofs of negative tests
– No fans allowed at all at sporting events of any kind until the 4th of December at the earliest
The health minister is in favor of vaccinating those over 12 – which is already happening, of course, but is NOT in favor of vaccinating the 5-11 group. Interesting.
While most Dutch people are rule-followers. More so than Americans, for sure. Some don’t like the “corona measures” and let the police know they’re angry, throwing M-80s and other fireworks as well as bricks and stones at the police. The police, in turn, fired water cannons. The demonstration was surprisingly small this time, with only a few hundred outside of parliament. See video. https://nos.nl/video/2405387-politie-bekogeld-met-zwaar-vuurwerk-en-stenen-bij-anti-coronademonstratie
Wow. The 5-11 is curious. I have the sense other countries are seeing something we either are not seeing or just not being forthcoming about.
Police do get the brunt everywhere, don’t they 🙁
Yes, they do. And they’re the ones getting screamed at. For goodness sake, their job is to protect those coming in and out of parliament. With bricks and fireworks being thrown, they clearly needed to intervene.
I sure agree
Thanks Joshua and Vicki for your responses. Very enlightening to say the least.
Very interesting that the Dutch government doesn’t believe in vaccinating 5-11 year olds. That Curley K-8 school might have avoided a Covid outbreak had most of those students been even partially vaccinated. Of course, the efficacy of those vaccines still need to be determined.
The Dutch government’s response throughout the pandemic has been curious, to say the least. First they advocated controlled spread and herd immunity, but very quickly – took about 2 or 3 days – switched to a hard lockdown. The lockdowns there, however, only included schools for a brief period. Their vaccination rollout was slow, but turned out to be excellent in the end, with one caveat: Children. Even the 12-17 year old group is exempt from the vaccination rules, and the 5-11 year old group is explicitly advised not to vaccinate and to wait for more data.
California has reported the highest number of Covid-19 hospital admissions over the last seven days with 2,921 hospitalizations, followed by Ohio (2,139), Texas (2,118), Michigan (2,086) and Pennsylvania (1,950), according to federal data.
Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, Montana, the Dakotas, are all seeing significant increases. Parts of Wisconsin and New York state, too.
FDA may skip advisory committee process to speed up Pfizer boosters for all adults.
Dave….I am I sure of your comment as I read more. I don’t know what is not true. Test and stay is being used by most schools. But it cannot be used for anyone symptomatic (that is, having two or more symptoms). It is intended for use by only individuals who are asymptomatic.
Per DESE: “The Test and Stay program is a testing initiative intended for asymptomatic close contacts of individuals with confirmed COVID-19. This testing program will allow asymptomatic close contacts to remain in school if they receive an individual rapid antigen test (e.g. BinaxNOW) each school day and test negative, as well as follow other guidelines as noted later this document.”
I am not sure of your comment. I left out the not
Symptomatic students can be tested at school and return to class if they test negative. Symptomatic students (with one tier 1 symptom and 2+ tier 2 symptoms) who are in test and stay can get a PCR test outside of school and if they test negative PCR can continue to test and stay. Essentially means missing 1-2 days of school instead of 5.
If it isn’t apparent—I’m a proponent of kids being in school as much as possible. I do agree that kids who have Covid or are close contacts outside of school need opportunities to keep up wit their schoolwork and stay connected to their classmates and teachers, but asking teachers to
teach those in-person and at home simultaneously is not reasonable.
I completely understand. I have been clear that there are alternatives to using already stretched teachers for remote. I fully believe kids should have the choice to be in school. I also fully believe that students should have the choice of remote. I’d be very surprised if you are not aware that many kids do better with remote.
In this case….which is accurate….teachers are the ones asking for minimal remote time to work with students for an hour or so who are sent home with chrome books and a packet of work only. No one is asking teachers to simultaneously teach entire days. Heaven knows they are stretched thin already. DESE has denied their request. It is difficult to argue that is in the best interest of these students.
My original post states accurately that the students and staff at home are not only covid positives but are also students and staff who have more than one virus type symptom.
Sadly, we had months to set up a remote option that did not involve teachers teaching in-school and simultaneously. For one, but not the absolute key, there is a teacher shortage because many do not want to be in school for very legitimate reasons.
Many schools are a mess right now….the numbers are increasing. We are doing what is best for kids who are in school with no interruption only and that number is dwindling
I’ve spoken to five individuals…two principals and three supers …tonight. Symptomatic kids MAY be tested if they arrive at school. Any child symptomatic is not supposed to be sent to school. Heaven knows we should not be encouraging them to go to school so they can be tested. Any teacher symptomatic is not to go to school. Their doctors have to clear them after several negative tests. We are in cold and flu season. One to two days …or more…..sounds good on paper. In reality, schools are a mess….that is a quote from one individual.. There are no subs. As I said, nurses are leaving due to stress. There are not enough folks to test.
I will add that I didn’t ask how many negatives a symptomatic person needs. I will follow up on that. But I sure has heck hope it isn’t one as the accuracy of the test is around 90 percent.
Binaxnow is 98% effective on negative tests for symptomatic people—I’m not in the sciences but I imagine you won’t get better than that.
I’m finding 84 to mid 90s. Do you have a citation for that please
But we are moving far from the point of my post. Anyone symptomatic cannot go into the school. That is a given. We surely are not encouraging symptomatic folks to go to a school to be tested. I have been told by multiple folks that anyone symptomatic is sent home…no test. DESE states test and stay is for asymptomatic folks. Most out of the school world require more than one., but I can’t find its requirement for number of negatives before return.
The entire point of my post is the weekly positive numbers in schools shows only part of the picture. Many more than that positive number are absent. Typically, there are absences during cold and flu season. However, with covid present, parents who always sent kids with a runny nose and cough cannot. Teachers also cannot go to class with what might be a simple cold. Two days or ten, the large amount of absences still disrupts
That, combined with a shortage of teachers, leaves many children home with a packet of work and a chrome book. Teachers are asking in many cases for short periods to work with the kids via zoom.
Districts know what they are capable of. They no longer have the right to make a decision on what works best for their children, teachers and families. Dave, it is a mess right now in some schools. And we are failing these kids by across the board denial of what would help.
Announced on the national evening news, Colorado ICUs are now at 95% capacity. 🙁
Everything is rising again, and significantly: Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. We’re in trouble, and it’s as if many Americans are as blind as a bat but also not using their radar.
Can someone explain to me why Scott Gottlieb is still on major TV shows. I’ve been patient for a long time with Scott. I know him and like and respect him. But, I am a bit sick and tired of his predictions that are about as good as my weather predictions. In other words, they suck. He has definitely declared the pandemic is nearing its end several times this year. And yet, he gets invited back on to these shows, over and over and over again. The only explanation I have is that he’s a board member at Pfizer. It’s in his interest for the vaccines to work better at preventing spread than they’re doing. Remember, he also said repeatedly that breakthrough cases were “rare.” They were never rare, and now they’re very common, and it’s a massive problem for the vulnerable. There is so little accountability on American TV. We don’t have good interviewers with hard-hitting questions. I know what I’d ask him. “Dr. Gottlieb, you said the Delta wave wouldn’t impact us much. Yet, it did.” “You also said that breakthrough cases were rare. Yet, they weren’t rare and are now very common.” “Last month you said that by Thanksgiving the pandemic would be receding and in terminal decline. Yet, it isn’t.” “As recently as last week you said the pandemic would be over by January. How can you say that with a straight face, sir?” Sure, you may lose him as an expert, but who needs that kind of expertise. Interview an expert with no drug company ties and a much better record at predicting. Someone who’s a straight shooter, rather than someone appears at times to just want to reassure people rather than brace them for potential problems. We need vigilance, not happy talk. I apologize for the rant, but losing 2,100 people today, and seeing (analyzing this evening) the numbers hospitalized in a growing number of states is wearing me down. I’m very depressed at this point.
Joshua, your rant is well deserved and absolutely no apology is needed. I know too many in DC are connected with Pfizer stock. I didn’t know Gotlieb sits on the board. How?
Lots of frustration tonight in far too many areas where we have failed.
C-19 for 11-13 is ready.
Comments are closed.
Your no-hype southeastern New England weather blog!
Thanks TK!
Cases continue to rise, especially in the northern tier of states (i.e.,MA) as more folks are heading indoors now.
It’s very frustrating that the fully vaccinated are getting the virus as well. This was NOT part of the plan when the new vaccines came out early in the year! WHAT happened?!?!?
When the polio vaccine first came out I don’t recall over the years hearing about polio cases suddenly on the rise.
Delta happened.
Getting my Moderna booster a little later this morning. How the bleep long will that last? a month or 2???????
This is not a good situation at all.
Still waiting for my 10:45 booster. they booked 6 persons for 1030. gimmiea a break! What a compmete farce!!! Pathetic!!!
You think I am pissed? Sure am. I am steaming!!!!!!!
Typical overbooking.
Received dose at 11:20 for a 10:45 appt.
So far, so good.
Good luck !!
Thanks Tom. Still aok.
There is no excuse.
Unsettling that vaccine efficacy against contracting infections is so poor. About half of new infections in Massachusetts are breakthroughs, and for the >65 group and vulnerable that’s a massive problem. I do blame Bourla (Pfizer chairman) and others for overpromising on the vaccines. Even early on it was clear that efficacy wasn’t that good against contracting the virus. Yet, Bourla et al. persisted in saying the vaccines were a “very effective”tool to prevent spread. They’re really not a “very effective” mitigation tool to curb spread. They ARE very effective – thus far – at preventing severe illness: Latest meta analysis has a 80-94% range on the vaccines’ effectiveness at preventing severe disease.
Piss-poor planning yields piss-poor results
No excuse. But people STILL believe being vaccinated makes the virus impenetrable, and I still hear “the vaccine is doing what was promised.” That has been nonsense for months.
If the vaccine truly did “what it promised”, we would be long done with mandatory masking by now. Of course, the unanticipated vaccine hesitancy didn’t help matters.
I agree although I think vaccine hesitancy was always a given.
Vicki, I don’t believe that vaccine hesitancy was expected to be so high. People last year this time were BEGGING for a vaccine, but many “chickened out” once they were cleared for use.
And I guess “herd immunity” is long since off the table? I don’t hear that term anymore even from the most optimistic medical professionals.
Even following schools as closely as I do, I missed something. Knowing test and stay is in place, when I look at weekly school covid numbers and see two students, I think only two or perhaps only a few have to remain home. How wrong that assumption is.
Anyone with two symptoms of anything (colds included) cannot be part of the test & stay program. As such those folks need to stay home…..students, teachers, staff. Many schools are struggling with absences, especially teachers who are in short supply. There is a serious shortage of substitutes. School nurses are starting to indicate they will step down or have already stepped down. As one school official put it in a SC meeting I watched…..right now nurses are the heart of the school.
Pool testing stresses resources since folks to administer the hundreds daily were never supplied by DESE. Kids are being sent home with a packet and a chrome book. Staff has said even an hour or so of zoom a day or even a week to assist homebound students would help. Zoom is absolutely forbidden by DESE.
This is more in the lower grades since upper grades have many vaccinated. I am sure there are schools that are not struggling with this….yet. But far too many are.
The reason most often cited for removal of the remote option was disruption of leaning for children.
The students at the Curley elementary school K-8 in JP are most certainly on Zoom! The only school in Boston and the state if I’m not mistaken.
Until November 22.
And that’s Thanksgiving week. Is it worth it to attend school that week for 2 and a half days? Any possible outbreak that’s ignited by pupils being in-person would then spread to others Thanksgiving weekend. Perhaps better to wait until Monday the 29th?
That makes too much sense. 😉
🙄
If they are using zoom and it is not a private school, they cannot use zoom
Here you go philip. DESE criticizes Curley. This is as big a joke as it gets
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/dese-denies-curley-schools-request-for-7-days-of-remote-learning-credit-following-covid-outbreak/2565128/
Not true. Schools can also use BinaxNow for symptomatic testing through CIC—same as test and stay. Not all choose too, but all are able.
Thanks, Dave. I have listened to enough to know you are right about not using it. I’ll need to find out why. You have given me something else to research.
But that still leaves schools in the same position either way. Kids and, as important, teachers, are not in class. My point is accurate. There is a great deal of disruption for all….and some could be eliminated by remote to assist those in quarantine or for groups without a teacher. In this last week school positives went from 2,218 the previous five day week to 3,021 this four day week. That is a huge increase. Worse….schools with over 10 positives increased from 56 a couple of weeks ago to 87. One was Natick. IMO is it increasingly difficult to justify the choice that was made to ban remote… the desire for continuity in teaching for all is not being met
Netherlands update:
Another massive case increase today, as well as a continuing significant rise in hospitalizations and ICU usage.
A compromise lockdown will be in place for 3 weeks, not 2, but not nearly as strict as during the winter of 2021 or spring 2020. Mask mandate everywhere in public indoor spaces, to be enforced, as well as distancing and capacity limit mandate (also enforced). Number of visitors to households limited to 2 per visit (not sure how this can be enforced, but knowing the Dutch there will be what they call “sociale controle” or neighbors telling one another to follow the rules). In the Netherlands, to be neighborly and obedient is what they call “social” behavior. Disobeying rules or going against norms, like going through a stop sign, is “anti-social.”
Non-essential stores may be open until 5 or 6pm, depending on the type of store. People are “strongly advised not to travel and work at home if at all possible” for 3 weeks. Schools, however, will remain open.
A stricter lockdown – permanent – will go into effect for the unvaccinated per the 1st of December. Very similar to Austria. Basically, unvaccinated folks will not be allowed into non-essential stores until they get vaccinated. Proofs of negative tests will no longer be sufficient for entry into certain public spaces like non-essential stores, libraries, museums, and restaurants.
How will that “unvaccinated” lockdown inside their homes be enforced? There is NO way a person is going to remain in his/her home or apartment for days on end.
They can leave their home, and they can go to supermarkets, grocery stores, schools (if they’re students), and pharmacies. But, they may not go to non-essential stores, restaurants, libraries, and museums. The Dutch already check you at the door in many of these places, to see if you are either vaccinated or have a negative test. The rule change would mean that having a negative test no longer gains you entrance to a public indoor space.
What is deemed a “non-essential” store? If a liquor store is one of them, that most certainly NOT go well, if the Dutch are anything like most Americans here. A VERY good move by Baker to keep those stores open last year. Just for the record, I’m a “teatotaler” myself.
In Chile being restricted to home was absolutely enforced and respected. This was before vaccines. Other countries can do what is needed.
Philip, what’s being proposed and in some cases being done across Europe wouldn’t fly here. I recognize that. I’m just reporting on it.
I will say that the European record on public health interventions and outcomes is excellent, compared to ours.
Our lens for looking at these things is often through the constitution, therefore focused on the individual. This relegates most if not all public health interventions to a secondary if not lower status. As living documents, almost all European constitutions have been modernized post war, to reflect their social welfare systems – incorporating a right to healthcare, for example – and numerous public health provisions (right to clean water, for instance). With these rights come obligations. It’s a two-way street. In the U.S. most of our enshrined rights are on a one-way street. We owe government and our fellow citizens practically nothing. In fact, the greatest good we get from the constitution is a right to non-intervention. That’s a fundamental difference between the U.S. and Europe. I am not saying that either system is better or worse. They’re both democratic, but have different emphases and principles that underlie societal functioning.
Great and true comment. We forget that our founders were concerned with the health of all. Washington had his troops isolate and then required vaccination for smallpox. This was 1777.
We have an amazing tendency to Interpret a constitution that is intended to protect all as if it is intended for us individually
https://theconversation.com/the-u-s-founding-fathers-would-want-us-to-get-the-covid-19-vaccine-152932
Yes, it’s often by interpretation and extrapolation that we must judge how our founders would have responded to, say, the Covid-19 pandemic. I do think that their emphasis was on the individual, with less of a role for society and government than, say, modern-day Europe. But the key word here is emphasis. As you hinted at, it’s not an either/or thing.
For Europeans their influencer from the Enlightenment period has often been Rousseau and his social contract. In the U.S., we don’t entirely ignore this, but place less of an emphasis on it.
It’s very unfortunate that black or white (binary) thinking is so prevalent these days. When House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, for example, says the Democrats’ policies are socialist, I’m wondering if he understands the word. It’s best to understand some of the Democrats’ policies in the light of the social contract, rather than socialism. And, of course, there are the Gohmerts and Greenes of the world who claim that certain policies are communist. One really wonders whether they comprehend the meaning of the word communist. Oh well, enough political philosophy for now.
Philip. See above de Curley school.
This is as absolutely absurd. DESE doesn’t want to allow short-term remote for kids who CANNOT be in school while quarantined because it will not “…. meet the academic and social emotional needs of our students…”.
My God. How does repeated disruption, lack of teachers and their guidance, parents with seriously ill children, children seeing friends diagnosed with a virus they know is serious and having to leave school in any form meet academic and social needs.
Philip, I think the liquor stores in the Netherlands can remain open, as they are deemed essential. “Wine farmers” as the stores are referred to, are really nice in the Netherlands, just like the bakeries, vegetable stores (called “vegetable farmers”), cheese shops, and fishmongers. You can get everything at a supermarket in the Netherlands, yet the traditional stores continue to thrive.
Dutch government has added a few more things to the list:
– Every household with a confirmed case must quarantine until all have proofs of negative tests
– No fans allowed at all at sporting events of any kind until the 4th of December at the earliest
The health minister is in favor of vaccinating those over 12 – which is already happening, of course, but is NOT in favor of vaccinating the 5-11 group. Interesting.
While most Dutch people are rule-followers. More so than Americans, for sure. Some don’t like the “corona measures” and let the police know they’re angry, throwing M-80s and other fireworks as well as bricks and stones at the police. The police, in turn, fired water cannons. The demonstration was surprisingly small this time, with only a few hundred outside of parliament. See video. https://nos.nl/video/2405387-politie-bekogeld-met-zwaar-vuurwerk-en-stenen-bij-anti-coronademonstratie
Wow. The 5-11 is curious. I have the sense other countries are seeing something we either are not seeing or just not being forthcoming about.
Police do get the brunt everywhere, don’t they 🙁
Yes, they do. And they’re the ones getting screamed at. For goodness sake, their job is to protect those coming in and out of parliament. With bricks and fireworks being thrown, they clearly needed to intervene.
I sure agree
Thanks Joshua and Vicki for your responses. Very enlightening to say the least.
Very interesting that the Dutch government doesn’t believe in vaccinating 5-11 year olds. That Curley K-8 school might have avoided a Covid outbreak had most of those students been even partially vaccinated. Of course, the efficacy of those vaccines still need to be determined.
The Dutch government’s response throughout the pandemic has been curious, to say the least. First they advocated controlled spread and herd immunity, but very quickly – took about 2 or 3 days – switched to a hard lockdown. The lockdowns there, however, only included schools for a brief period. Their vaccination rollout was slow, but turned out to be excellent in the end, with one caveat: Children. Even the 12-17 year old group is exempt from the vaccination rules, and the 5-11 year old group is explicitly advised not to vaccinate and to wait for more data.
California has reported the highest number of Covid-19 hospital admissions over the last seven days with 2,921 hospitalizations, followed by Ohio (2,139), Texas (2,118), Michigan (2,086) and Pennsylvania (1,950), according to federal data.
Colorado, New Mexico, Minnesota, Montana, the Dakotas, are all seeing significant increases. Parts of Wisconsin and New York state, too.
FDA may skip advisory committee process to speed up Pfizer boosters for all adults.
Dave….I am I sure of your comment as I read more. I don’t know what is not true. Test and stay is being used by most schools. But it cannot be used for anyone symptomatic (that is, having two or more symptoms). It is intended for use by only individuals who are asymptomatic.
Per DESE: “The Test and Stay program is a testing initiative intended for asymptomatic close contacts of individuals with confirmed COVID-19. This testing program will allow asymptomatic close contacts to remain in school if they receive an individual rapid antigen test (e.g. BinaxNOW) each school day and test negative, as well as follow other guidelines as noted later this document.”
I am not sure of your comment. I left out the not
Symptomatic students can be tested at school and return to class if they test negative. Symptomatic students (with one tier 1 symptom and 2+ tier 2 symptoms) who are in test and stay can get a PCR test outside of school and if they test negative PCR can continue to test and stay. Essentially means missing 1-2 days of school instead of 5.
If it isn’t apparent—I’m a proponent of kids being in school as much as possible. I do agree that kids who have Covid or are close contacts outside of school need opportunities to keep up wit their schoolwork and stay connected to their classmates and teachers, but asking teachers to
teach those in-person and at home simultaneously is not reasonable.
I completely understand. I have been clear that there are alternatives to using already stretched teachers for remote. I fully believe kids should have the choice to be in school. I also fully believe that students should have the choice of remote. I’d be very surprised if you are not aware that many kids do better with remote.
In this case….which is accurate….teachers are the ones asking for minimal remote time to work with students for an hour or so who are sent home with chrome books and a packet of work only. No one is asking teachers to simultaneously teach entire days. Heaven knows they are stretched thin already. DESE has denied their request. It is difficult to argue that is in the best interest of these students.
My original post states accurately that the students and staff at home are not only covid positives but are also students and staff who have more than one virus type symptom.
Sadly, we had months to set up a remote option that did not involve teachers teaching in-school and simultaneously. For one, but not the absolute key, there is a teacher shortage because many do not want to be in school for very legitimate reasons.
Many schools are a mess right now….the numbers are increasing. We are doing what is best for kids who are in school with no interruption only and that number is dwindling
I’ve spoken to five individuals…two principals and three supers …tonight. Symptomatic kids MAY be tested if they arrive at school. Any child symptomatic is not supposed to be sent to school. Heaven knows we should not be encouraging them to go to school so they can be tested. Any teacher symptomatic is not to go to school. Their doctors have to clear them after several negative tests. We are in cold and flu season. One to two days …or more…..sounds good on paper. In reality, schools are a mess….that is a quote from one individual.. There are no subs. As I said, nurses are leaving due to stress. There are not enough folks to test.
I will add that I didn’t ask how many negatives a symptomatic person needs. I will follow up on that. But I sure has heck hope it isn’t one as the accuracy of the test is around 90 percent.
Binaxnow is 98% effective on negative tests for symptomatic people—I’m not in the sciences but I imagine you won’t get better than that.
I’m finding 84 to mid 90s. Do you have a citation for that please
But we are moving far from the point of my post. Anyone symptomatic cannot go into the school. That is a given. We surely are not encouraging symptomatic folks to go to a school to be tested. I have been told by multiple folks that anyone symptomatic is sent home…no test. DESE states test and stay is for asymptomatic folks. Most out of the school world require more than one., but I can’t find its requirement for number of negatives before return.
The entire point of my post is the weekly positive numbers in schools shows only part of the picture. Many more than that positive number are absent. Typically, there are absences during cold and flu season. However, with covid present, parents who always sent kids with a runny nose and cough cannot. Teachers also cannot go to class with what might be a simple cold. Two days or ten, the large amount of absences still disrupts
That, combined with a shortage of teachers, leaves many children home with a packet of work and a chrome book. Teachers are asking in many cases for short periods to work with the kids via zoom.
Districts know what they are capable of. They no longer have the right to make a decision on what works best for their children, teachers and families. Dave, it is a mess right now in some schools. And we are failing these kids by across the board denial of what would help.
Announced on the national evening news, Colorado ICUs are now at 95% capacity. 🙁
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1459352335935676416
Everything is rising again, and significantly: Cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. We’re in trouble, and it’s as if many Americans are as blind as a bat but also not using their radar.
Can someone explain to me why Scott Gottlieb is still on major TV shows. I’ve been patient for a long time with Scott. I know him and like and respect him. But, I am a bit sick and tired of his predictions that are about as good as my weather predictions. In other words, they suck. He has definitely declared the pandemic is nearing its end several times this year. And yet, he gets invited back on to these shows, over and over and over again. The only explanation I have is that he’s a board member at Pfizer. It’s in his interest for the vaccines to work better at preventing spread than they’re doing. Remember, he also said repeatedly that breakthrough cases were “rare.” They were never rare, and now they’re very common, and it’s a massive problem for the vulnerable. There is so little accountability on American TV. We don’t have good interviewers with hard-hitting questions. I know what I’d ask him. “Dr. Gottlieb, you said the Delta wave wouldn’t impact us much. Yet, it did.” “You also said that breakthrough cases were rare. Yet, they weren’t rare and are now very common.” “Last month you said that by Thanksgiving the pandemic would be receding and in terminal decline. Yet, it isn’t.” “As recently as last week you said the pandemic would be over by January. How can you say that with a straight face, sir?” Sure, you may lose him as an expert, but who needs that kind of expertise. Interview an expert with no drug company ties and a much better record at predicting. Someone who’s a straight shooter, rather than someone appears at times to just want to reassure people rather than brace them for potential problems. We need vigilance, not happy talk. I apologize for the rant, but losing 2,100 people today, and seeing (analyzing this evening) the numbers hospitalized in a growing number of states is wearing me down. I’m very depressed at this point.
Joshua, your rant is well deserved and absolutely no apology is needed. I know too many in DC are connected with Pfizer stock. I didn’t know Gotlieb sits on the board. How?
Lots of frustration tonight in far too many areas where we have failed.
C-19 for 11-13 is ready.