The good news is if you are fully vaccinated you are protected against severe COVID, hospitalization and death, and are even protected against the known variants, including the delta variant, circulating in this country,” Walensky said.
This statement is actual closer to the truth than previous statements by Walensky. Here, she implicitly recognizes that the protection given by the vaccine is against severe illness, and much less so against infection. I just wish she would make that explicit and add something like: “You can still get infected by coronavirus when fully vaccinated, so beware of the risk. It’s advised that you still wear a mask in public indoor spaces to avoid contracting the virus and possibly passing on to others who may be unvaccinated or immunocompromised.”
I agree. However, it is still an untruth given that the efficacy of Pfeizer has dropped to just over 60%. Either way, it skirts the truth and does nothing to gain the trust of those who are hesitant to trust the cdc enough to have the vaccine.
I didn’t see this as a lie as much as I saw it as bolstering mistrust that already exists.
Two efficacy indicators to look at:
1. Contracting the virus. This has dropped. And, contrary to what the CDC and others have said, its drop is significant (to less than 70%, and perhaps as low as 60%), breakthrough infections are much more common than was thought, and those who are fully vaccinated yet get infected can transmit. The Israelis recognize this. Somehow we don’t or refuse to. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084
2. Protecting against severe illness. Vaccines (mRNA, in particular; but also the others) still protect against severe disease quite well. The number has also dropped from 96% to between 88% and 93%.
Terrifying really. Imo it is beyond irresponsible that the cdc and others do not get the word out and recommend mitigation be reinstated.
I’ll share your link if that is all right.
I’d like to write to Baker and politely as him to think about reinstating. Unfortunately, removing mitigation practices not only allowed for some of this but made it MUCH more difficult to reinstate them.
Joshua, do You have any links to the data source for this information? This is TERRIFYING!!!!
I think we have all be HOODWINKED!!!!!
I am thoroughly DISGUSTED!
Other than getting the vaccines and 2 fishing trips, I have not been out since March 13, 2020.
I will NOT go in a store or restaurant at all.
Before delta we were ready to visit vaccinated friends in an outdoor setting. Now we are rethinking that and may not.
We are supposed to go to an outdoor Christmas in July get together next weekend in Marshfield. We likely will not be attending.
We recently opted out of 2 family parties.
This virus is NOT going away anytime soon.
Are we looking at an extinction event and we don’t know it yet? Now there’s a sobering thought.
We have done the same. We get together with my oldest and her family who, like us, do not go anywhere. We have not stopped any practices as far as cleaning anything that comes into the house. We were in a routine and it was not hard to continue. But we also were fairly certain this as coming.
If you and I think we are hoodwinked, how do we expect those who are understandably nervous about our agencies telling the truth to trust them enough to vaccinate.
I used to think she was great, then somewhere along the line she did an about face. I do not like her performance any more. Frankly, I do NOT trust her at all. She should be replaced.
Ironically, the likes of Topol and Gottlieb are actually helping the anti-vax community, in my opinion, by overstating the effectiveness of the vaccines. They’ve both retreated on breakthrough infections, now recognizing that they are not that rare. Yet, they maintain a narrative that says vaccines are perfect against severe illness. They’re not. That does NOT mean they don’t work. It just means they’re not perfect. Topol today wrote that “all hospitalized patients in L.A. County are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.” That is false. In 3 of 70 hospitals that is true. But the vast majority of L.A. County hospitals do have some fully vaccinated patients in them. By putting out falsehoods they actually help the anti-vax community who can retort by saying, “they’re lying … vaccines don’t work.” BE TRUTHFUL. Level with people. That will actually get us further than unnuanced narratives.
Ugh…… How are we going to win this battle????
Does not bode well for us.
As you know, I agree. I’ll repeat that an omission is for all intents and purposes a lie. How do you trust anyone or any agency who lies right to your face?
Exactly. I am just so beyond furious- after coming out of 4 years of a brutally horrifying extreme example after example of just how bad it can go and how dangerous it can be when facts are “negotiable” and absolutely any truth – no matter how vitally important- can be easily traded in for lies or even a passive allowance of untrue spin and disinformation- of the truth being dismissed if not in line with policy – the Biden administration (my own “great white hope”) does exactly that but with something of the absolute most extreme importance- our health and the facts regarding an infectious disease.
The way I see it – covid is bad. This is bad. Pure and simple. We are in a bad spot, Even if you are fully vaccinated- we are not even close to safe or out of the woods – maybe we are even dancing along the early lines of a preamble to an extinction level event. Especially if we keep the petri dish warm for variants.
But for political reasons that answer – this is bad, and it’s critical we fix it together in the face of the actual facts – is simply not acceptable to the current administration. I think they might be hoping to simply hold onto better, more optimistic “data” until absolutely forced to admit the truth. (I would argue that ship sailed 2 weeks ago with the initial data from Israel.).
That process of denial – still ongoing – is and will continue to cost lives of good people who trusted Fauci and Biden. As I’ve said before – they now have ever growing blood on their hands with tgeir own “big lie.”
I kinda find it – gosh – provident maybe? – that we are currently clearly not understanding as a society why facts and objective truth are important, have independent merit beyond effect on people…..and so the universe throws us something that simply will never bend to political will and is basically almost impossible to hide – a global pandemic.
97% of Covid-19 hospitalizations are those who are UNVACCINATED!
Issue is the 3 percent who are fully vaxxed were sold a bill of goods and one wonders if they would have steered more clear of harms way by continuing mitigation if Fauci and Biden weren’t crowing “No mask needed – yipee!!”
Wow. Read your comment twice. Powerful truth and absolutely terrifying.
Three percent or even a fraction of one percent doesn’t matter. A lie is a lie. We sit and condemn folks for not being vaccinated. Some have chosen to listen to one big lie. Others, who are simply looking for truth, hear the other big lie….the one you so aptly pointed out, Mama….and continue to be unsure.
Blame needs to go where it belongs…..and it is not with those who are honestly afraid of this vaccine because they have no one to trust
I hope our vaccination rates remain high enough that Baker won’t have to reinstate mask orders here. We have made too much progress in that regard.
He better reinstate it.
This ^
As Vicki put it the issue right now is really there is “no one to trust.”
Along those lines – it has been said recently I know but bears repeating early & often – Joshua’s diligence in keeping us provided with facts and updates here daily – it means more than just beinv an incredibly kind and wonderful thing. I honestly believe it has likely saved at least someone by now. As a tiny example- bc of access to Joshua’s updates – I share his info widely with my friends, family and a wide group of practicing physician friends – in disparate fields and specialties- but like us trying to keep their own loved ones and patients safe. I feel confident in saying I’m sure access to the facts from Joshua has prevented some breakthrough infections as many of us mask more than we would have – absent this knowledge.
Thank you Joshua!!!!
Awesome comment. The information here has proven invaluable. Thank you, Joshua. I truly believe we are informed as possible and better informed than many.
I think a particular lens of perspective is needed:
I always point to the Spanish Flu of 1918 as analogous to what we are enduring now. People say 1918 as the year for the Spanish Flu. But it most assuredly began before 1918 and although it says it calmed after 1920 – the spanish flu is still with us today in a form we know as the seasonal flu. It still kills an alarming amount of people but we have better control over it. Unfortunately the science then isn’t as advanced as it is now but it is believed the spanish flu went through variants much like coronavirus is. One thing scientists have said about coronavirus since near the start is there was likely a chance this would never go away much in the same aspect as the spanish flu never went away.
The government is woefully misguided in what they are doing now. It is my belief they aren’t informing the public as well as they can about the delta strain and other variants because their goal is crystal clear: get as many people vaccinated as possible. If people who are on the fence about the vaccine or who only have one shot hear that there are other variants which the vaccines are less effective against, they will balk at getting fully vaccinated. The name of the game is larger vaccination rates at, unfortunately, any cost. You’d think that at this stage in the game that would be folly because if people aren’t vaccinated now what could possibly drive them to do it? The answer is education. It’s no mistake that the intelligence rank of states compared to the fully vaccinated population rank of states are somewhat mirrored. It takes rigorous education on subjects to finally trigger people into actually doing what is best for their health in cases like this. Muddying the waters about variants will impede that education. I, personally, don’t like the idea of policy and education on the basis of the lowest common denominators but I understand the reasoning behind it.
I do want to tackle the idea of “extinction level event” and my first paragraph touches upon it lightly. I don’t believe we are in an ELE in the least. I just think we are at the beginning of the next wave. Eventually we will have booster shots as we ride through different variants that affect us until one variant becomes the dominant factor and what we live with going forward. As far as going to events: I don’t mind being around people outside with a mask assuming all or most are vaccinated and the unvaccinated are wearing a mask. My reasoning is simplistic: Massachusetts is one of the top states with full vaccination rates. Every single state that borders us is in the top five fully vaccinated. It’s summer. It’s outdoors. All factors combined still give me peace of mind when all things are considered. We are at a far different point than this time last year and even then the numbers were down without a vaccine because it was summer and people were meeting outdoors. If you feel the need for extra protection, wear a mask if people will be coming within six feet of you.
Wow. Great comment. Many here today. Sadly, as we know, in an effort to convince people to vaccinate, the administrations and agency’s’ approach does the exact opposite.
I posted a link re 1918 yesterday. Also a link re the vaccine hesitancy then.
To booster or not to booster? THAT is the $64,000 question!
Thanks to the UNVACCINATED, boosters are looking more and more likely and this pandemic will continue another year into 2022 along with many more unnecessary deaths.
Last year, I sadly predicted that this would be an official “2-year” pandemic (2020-2022). I don’t want to know what January 1, 2023 will look like. Sigh…we should be nearing the finish line.
The percentage of hospitalized patients who are fully vaccinated is small. But I firmly believe based on the data I’ve analyzed – it is not 97%. When 97% is bandied about that’s comparatively old data, going back several weeks or even longer. Probably the best data is in Israel. It’s updated constantly. Israel only uses Pfizer. The last time I checked hospitalized patients who are fully vaccinated were about 10% of the total, with another 12% partially vaccinated. In England and Scotland we see 25%-37%, are partially or fully vaccinated, which may reflect the use of Astra Zeneca (they also use Pfizer, but still more use of AZ) and a longer lag time between shots. Best guess on % of hospitalized fully vaccinated folks in UK is 7%, based on PHE data. Deaths among the fully vaccinated in the U.S. are also quite low, but it’s not less than 1% as Fauci likes to cite. That again is old data that doesn’t account for Delta. My guess is that in the U.S. fully vaccinated people currently account for between 3 and 4% of total deaths. This does NOT imply Delta is more virulent (though I suspect it is). It just means there are far more breakthrough infections with Delta, a small portion of which get hospitalized and an even smaller portion die.
My good Heavens. Who do we trust now
The good news is if you are fully vaccinated you are protected against severe COVID, hospitalization and death, and are even protected against the known variants, including the delta variant, circulating in this country,” Walensky said.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/563391-cdc-director-warns-of-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-as-cases-rise%3famp
This statement is actual closer to the truth than previous statements by Walensky. Here, she implicitly recognizes that the protection given by the vaccine is against severe illness, and much less so against infection. I just wish she would make that explicit and add something like: “You can still get infected by coronavirus when fully vaccinated, so beware of the risk. It’s advised that you still wear a mask in public indoor spaces to avoid contracting the virus and possibly passing on to others who may be unvaccinated or immunocompromised.”
I agree. However, it is still an untruth given that the efficacy of Pfeizer has dropped to just over 60%. Either way, it skirts the truth and does nothing to gain the trust of those who are hesitant to trust the cdc enough to have the vaccine.
I didn’t see this as a lie as much as I saw it as bolstering mistrust that already exists.
Two efficacy indicators to look at:
1. Contracting the virus. This has dropped. And, contrary to what the CDC and others have said, its drop is significant (to less than 70%, and perhaps as low as 60%), breakthrough infections are much more common than was thought, and those who are fully vaccinated yet get infected can transmit. The Israelis recognize this. Somehow we don’t or refuse to. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084
2. Protecting against severe illness. Vaccines (mRNA, in particular; but also the others) still protect against severe disease quite well. The number has also dropped from 96% to between 88% and 93%.
Terrifying really. Imo it is beyond irresponsible that the cdc and others do not get the word out and recommend mitigation be reinstated.
I’ll share your link if that is all right.
I’d like to write to Baker and politely as him to think about reinstating. Unfortunately, removing mitigation practices not only allowed for some of this but made it MUCH more difficult to reinstate them.
Joshua, do You have any links to the data source for this information? This is TERRIFYING!!!!
I think we have all be HOODWINKED!!!!!
I am thoroughly DISGUSTED!
Other than getting the vaccines and 2 fishing trips, I have not been out since March 13, 2020.
I will NOT go in a store or restaurant at all.
Before delta we were ready to visit vaccinated friends in an outdoor setting. Now we are rethinking that and may not.
We are supposed to go to an outdoor Christmas in July get together next weekend in Marshfield. We likely will not be attending.
We recently opted out of 2 family parties.
This virus is NOT going away anytime soon.
Are we looking at an extinction event and we don’t know it yet? Now there’s a sobering thought.
We have done the same. We get together with my oldest and her family who, like us, do not go anywhere. We have not stopped any practices as far as cleaning anything that comes into the house. We were in a routine and it was not hard to continue. But we also were fairly certain this as coming.
If you and I think we are hoodwinked, how do we expect those who are understandably nervous about our agencies telling the truth to trust them enough to vaccinate.
Well, that is clearly a problem.
Agree
Love this. Vive la France
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/13/1015591406/french-people-rush-for-vaccines-after-macron-ties-a-new-health-pass-to-cafe-life
re: Walensky
I used to think she was great, then somewhere along the line she did an about face. I do not like her performance any more. Frankly, I do NOT trust her at all. She should be replaced.
Ironically, the likes of Topol and Gottlieb are actually helping the anti-vax community, in my opinion, by overstating the effectiveness of the vaccines. They’ve both retreated on breakthrough infections, now recognizing that they are not that rare. Yet, they maintain a narrative that says vaccines are perfect against severe illness. They’re not. That does NOT mean they don’t work. It just means they’re not perfect. Topol today wrote that “all hospitalized patients in L.A. County are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.” That is false. In 3 of 70 hospitals that is true. But the vast majority of L.A. County hospitals do have some fully vaccinated patients in them. By putting out falsehoods they actually help the anti-vax community who can retort by saying, “they’re lying … vaccines don’t work.” BE TRUTHFUL. Level with people. That will actually get us further than unnuanced narratives.
Ugh…… How are we going to win this battle????
Does not bode well for us.
As you know, I agree. I’ll repeat that an omission is for all intents and purposes a lie. How do you trust anyone or any agency who lies right to your face?
Exactly. I am just so beyond furious- after coming out of 4 years of a brutally horrifying extreme example after example of just how bad it can go and how dangerous it can be when facts are “negotiable” and absolutely any truth – no matter how vitally important- can be easily traded in for lies or even a passive allowance of untrue spin and disinformation- of the truth being dismissed if not in line with policy – the Biden administration (my own “great white hope”) does exactly that but with something of the absolute most extreme importance- our health and the facts regarding an infectious disease.
The way I see it – covid is bad. This is bad. Pure and simple. We are in a bad spot, Even if you are fully vaccinated- we are not even close to safe or out of the woods – maybe we are even dancing along the early lines of a preamble to an extinction level event. Especially if we keep the petri dish warm for variants.
But for political reasons that answer – this is bad, and it’s critical we fix it together in the face of the actual facts – is simply not acceptable to the current administration. I think they might be hoping to simply hold onto better, more optimistic “data” until absolutely forced to admit the truth. (I would argue that ship sailed 2 weeks ago with the initial data from Israel.).
That process of denial – still ongoing – is and will continue to cost lives of good people who trusted Fauci and Biden. As I’ve said before – they now have ever growing blood on their hands with tgeir own “big lie.”
I kinda find it – gosh – provident maybe? – that we are currently clearly not understanding as a society why facts and objective truth are important, have independent merit beyond effect on people…..and so the universe throws us something that simply will never bend to political will and is basically almost impossible to hide – a global pandemic.
97% of Covid-19 hospitalizations are those who are UNVACCINATED!
Issue is the 3 percent who are fully vaxxed were sold a bill of goods and one wonders if they would have steered more clear of harms way by continuing mitigation if Fauci and Biden weren’t crowing “No mask needed – yipee!!”
Wow. Read your comment twice. Powerful truth and absolutely terrifying.
Three percent or even a fraction of one percent doesn’t matter. A lie is a lie. We sit and condemn folks for not being vaccinated. Some have chosen to listen to one big lie. Others, who are simply looking for truth, hear the other big lie….the one you so aptly pointed out, Mama….and continue to be unsure.
Blame needs to go where it belongs…..and it is not with those who are honestly afraid of this vaccine because they have no one to trust
????
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/health/los-angeles-county-covid-cases/index.html
I hope our vaccination rates remain high enough that Baker won’t have to reinstate mask orders here. We have made too much progress in that regard.
He better reinstate it.
This ^
As Vicki put it the issue right now is really there is “no one to trust.”
Along those lines – it has been said recently I know but bears repeating early & often – Joshua’s diligence in keeping us provided with facts and updates here daily – it means more than just beinv an incredibly kind and wonderful thing. I honestly believe it has likely saved at least someone by now. As a tiny example- bc of access to Joshua’s updates – I share his info widely with my friends, family and a wide group of practicing physician friends – in disparate fields and specialties- but like us trying to keep their own loved ones and patients safe. I feel confident in saying I’m sure access to the facts from Joshua has prevented some breakthrough infections as many of us mask more than we would have – absent this knowledge.
Thank you Joshua!!!!
Awesome comment. The information here has proven invaluable. Thank you, Joshua. I truly believe we are informed as possible and better informed than many.
I think a particular lens of perspective is needed:
I always point to the Spanish Flu of 1918 as analogous to what we are enduring now. People say 1918 as the year for the Spanish Flu. But it most assuredly began before 1918 and although it says it calmed after 1920 – the spanish flu is still with us today in a form we know as the seasonal flu. It still kills an alarming amount of people but we have better control over it. Unfortunately the science then isn’t as advanced as it is now but it is believed the spanish flu went through variants much like coronavirus is. One thing scientists have said about coronavirus since near the start is there was likely a chance this would never go away much in the same aspect as the spanish flu never went away.
The government is woefully misguided in what they are doing now. It is my belief they aren’t informing the public as well as they can about the delta strain and other variants because their goal is crystal clear: get as many people vaccinated as possible. If people who are on the fence about the vaccine or who only have one shot hear that there are other variants which the vaccines are less effective against, they will balk at getting fully vaccinated. The name of the game is larger vaccination rates at, unfortunately, any cost. You’d think that at this stage in the game that would be folly because if people aren’t vaccinated now what could possibly drive them to do it? The answer is education. It’s no mistake that the intelligence rank of states compared to the fully vaccinated population rank of states are somewhat mirrored. It takes rigorous education on subjects to finally trigger people into actually doing what is best for their health in cases like this. Muddying the waters about variants will impede that education. I, personally, don’t like the idea of policy and education on the basis of the lowest common denominators but I understand the reasoning behind it.
I do want to tackle the idea of “extinction level event” and my first paragraph touches upon it lightly. I don’t believe we are in an ELE in the least. I just think we are at the beginning of the next wave. Eventually we will have booster shots as we ride through different variants that affect us until one variant becomes the dominant factor and what we live with going forward. As far as going to events: I don’t mind being around people outside with a mask assuming all or most are vaccinated and the unvaccinated are wearing a mask. My reasoning is simplistic: Massachusetts is one of the top states with full vaccination rates. Every single state that borders us is in the top five fully vaccinated. It’s summer. It’s outdoors. All factors combined still give me peace of mind when all things are considered. We are at a far different point than this time last year and even then the numbers were down without a vaccine because it was summer and people were meeting outdoors. If you feel the need for extra protection, wear a mask if people will be coming within six feet of you.
Wow. Great comment. Many here today. Sadly, as we know, in an effort to convince people to vaccinate, the administrations and agency’s’ approach does the exact opposite.
I posted a link re 1918 yesterday. Also a link re the vaccine hesitancy then.
To booster or not to booster? THAT is the $64,000 question!
Thanks to the UNVACCINATED, boosters are looking more and more likely and this pandemic will continue another year into 2022 along with many more unnecessary deaths.
Last year, I sadly predicted that this would be an official “2-year” pandemic (2020-2022). I don’t want to know what January 1, 2023 will look like. Sigh…we should be nearing the finish line.
The percentage of hospitalized patients who are fully vaccinated is small. But I firmly believe based on the data I’ve analyzed – it is not 97%. When 97% is bandied about that’s comparatively old data, going back several weeks or even longer. Probably the best data is in Israel. It’s updated constantly. Israel only uses Pfizer. The last time I checked hospitalized patients who are fully vaccinated were about 10% of the total, with another 12% partially vaccinated. In England and Scotland we see 25%-37%, are partially or fully vaccinated, which may reflect the use of Astra Zeneca (they also use Pfizer, but still more use of AZ) and a longer lag time between shots. Best guess on % of hospitalized fully vaccinated folks in UK is 7%, based on PHE data. Deaths among the fully vaccinated in the U.S. are also quite low, but it’s not less than 1% as Fauci likes to cite. That again is old data that doesn’t account for Delta. My guess is that in the U.S. fully vaccinated people currently account for between 3 and 4% of total deaths. This does NOT imply Delta is more virulent (though I suspect it is). It just means there are far more breakthrough infections with Delta, a small portion of which get hospitalized and an even smaller portion die.
Joshua this is curious.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/06/science/Israel-Pfizer-covid-vaccine.amp.html
7-18’s C-19 is ready.